Jessie T. Wolf
Newborn Puppy Pics!|
Current Mood: happy
|Date:||January 22nd, 2011 10:18 pm (UTC)|| |
Poor puppies. Tail docking needs to be illegal and people who want it done never allowed to own an animal again. It would be like cutting a finger off a kid because you think it looks better. The dewclaw thing doesn't sound like a good idea, either.
|Date:||January 22nd, 2011 10:41 pm (UTC)|| |
Originally they used to dock Rottie tails to help them in their work. In the days where they used to herd cattle, their tails were at risk of being trampled on. Over time it just became part of the breed standard, but these days more and more countries are outlawing it, because it's not as necessary and is only a cosmetic preference. I would have opted to keep the tails natural, but in this case I left the decision up to the Dam's owner. In fact, the earlier you get the procedures done, (at only a few days old) the safer and less painful it is, because the bone is still soft like cartilage.
The dewclaw removal is a safety procedure. Many dogs accidentally rip their dewclaws off while running, playing, running through woods and heavy brush, etc. Dewclaws generally don't have bones in them, and are really no different than giving a dog surgery for a spay or neuter (any surgery is going to be somewhat painful...).
I also disagree with declawing cats, but again if it's going to be done, doing it while they're very young kittens is easier than when they're older. :/
|Date:||January 22nd, 2011 11:18 pm (UTC)|| |
I'll just be glad when it's illegal everywhere to do that. There's no real point to risk their health for something like that. I was surprised but happy that the previous owner of a pit bull we used to have never did the dock/crop thing. She had a full length tail that she whipped people with mercilessly and natural, half-flop ears. I hope whoever got her after we had to give her up didn't decide she "didn't look right" and try to "fix" her look.
|Date:||January 23rd, 2011 05:07 am (UTC)|| |
Docking and cropping isn't a health risk at all. Again, I'm not especially for it, because it isn't necessary, but going as far as saying that anyone who wants it done should never own an animal again is getting a bit extreme. I know that you're very passionate about animals, and you have a very strong opinion, but for example, I would never say that Luci's owner shouldn't ever own another animal again just because he chose to dock the litter's tails. He is an absolutely wonderful owner to Luci. She's well looked after, trained and loved. She's exercised daily, and she's in REALLY good physically fit condition, because he goes hiking and mountain climbing with her. Really she couldn't ask for a better owner, and you really don't know him to make such a judgment of people like him who choose to dock should not own an animal.
Also, Pit Bulls generally do not have their tails docked, but I think the cropped ears look stupid. I much prefer the natural floppy look. And yes, I would hope that no one would try a dock or crop on a full-grown dog. Most good veterinarians wouldn't do a surgery like that on an adult anyway. Anyone who home scissor crops their dogs themselves should go to jail for animal abuse, no question. :(
|Date:||January 23rd, 2011 08:43 pm (UTC)|| |
Any surgery is a health risk. Unless the vets doing the docking are heartless beasts then the puppies would have had to get at least a minimal dose of anesthetic before surgery, and that in itself holds dangers, no matter how small. Then there is the risk of infection as the stump that used to be a tail heals up. So yes, it is a health risk because tiny animals are being put through a completely unnecessary medical procedure with all the risks that the simplest of medical procedures always holds. I'll never be OK with it just like I'll never be OK with some of the things people do to their own human children.
|Date:||January 23rd, 2011 11:28 pm (UTC)|| |
The puppies get a topical anesthetic, that numbs the incision area. And fine, true then, with any surgery there is a risk of infection, so I retract my comment of saying it isn't a health risk. But then with every type of surgery, this is why a good vet will take the best care and prescribe antibiotics and painkillers, and have the owner check each puppy daily for signs of anything unusual.
In that case then, if you think along the lines that cropping and docking is cruel and not worth risking the puppies' health, then by similar logic spaying and neutering is a health risk as well, and therefore unnecessary.
I chose to keep Jango intact, and I may get flack for that from other die-hard animal rights people who feel that not spaying and neutering is murder. I may also get flack from people saying that I'm an irresponsible pet owner who should never own an animal again because I chose to breed my dog (for health and temperament) and thus I'm adding to the pet overpopulation problem. So, why don't you tell me what a cruel person I am for doing what I did? You know well enough that I am stupidly devoted to my animals. I take better care of them than myself, usually.
Please remember Mewmew, I have never said that you should be okay with docking and cropping. I myself, *once again* prefer my tails and ears natural. But, as an open mined person, I also do my research and educate myself about the processes. I used to work at a vet clinic after all.
I compare this to the people who believe that Pit Bulls are all vicious, child-killing monsters. Now, you and I know that's not true... but I know the breed very well, and I will never deny that when a Pit Bull type breed bites, it does do a severe amount of damage. But most well socialized and well-trained Pits will never be a safety risk. I wish that more Pit Bull haters would take the time to do their research on the breed before making such a claim about them, as well as accusing all Pit Bull owners of being abusive people, who are into drugs and violence. But I also respect that if certain people are terrified of the breed, then they probably have a good reason for it. I would never tell someone who's loved one was attacked by a Pit type to change their opinion of them, because it simply won't happen. All you can do is try to educate people.
In the end, everyone will have an opinion, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. But with that said, and with all due respect, please stop going off on my journal about how wrong it is to crop and dock. If you're that bothered by it, write about it in your own journal. It might make you feel better, and no doubt your LJ friends will agree with you, and make you feel better about your opinion. I am neutral on the subject, and will always stay neutral about it.
Rot's with tails really show their Mastiff roots I think. Same with Boxers actually. I'd prefer a Boxer totally natural now that I think about it.
...but I love properly cropped and docked Dobermans. Is that weird? >_>
|Date:||January 22nd, 2011 11:08 pm (UTC)|| |
Not weird to me. :3 Luci's owner is going to make sure that the vet at least docks them at the second vertebrae, which is the proper size. Jango's got docked at the 3rd, and so when he was growing up and was at that awkward slim adolescent stage, everyone thought that he was part Dobie because of how long his tail dock is. I like it in some ways because he can actually wag his nub and show some more emotion. :-P
|Date:||January 23rd, 2011 04:32 am (UTC)|| |
Awww, such cute little puppy potatoes.
Docking has been illegal for a while now, where I live, so most rotties, dobies etc. have their full tails. Only the older ones tend not to. A lot of the rottie tails I see are pretty long and fluffy, they are lovely.
There are some rotties who carry a natural bob-tail gene, but I don't think they're very common. I think there are only one or two breeders in Australia whose lines carry it.
I guess my point is that the puppies are lovely and I'm glad you've decided to keep them au naturale in future. :)
|Date:||January 23rd, 2011 05:29 am (UTC)|| |
Well thank you for the compliments. ^__^ And yeah, I asked Luci's owner if he wanted to keep them natural or dock, and he chose to dock mostly because he's had Rotts in the past who have split or broken their tails from wagging them so hard against walls and stuff. I've heard similar stories for Pit Bulls and Danes, and well, he owns the Mother, so he makes the calls. I just own Daddy. :-P But yeah, definitely, my future litters will have their beautiful natural tails. :)
They just got their tails docked and dewclaws removed yesterday.
Why did you need to dock the tails and remove the dewclaws?
|Date:||January 23rd, 2011 09:23 am (UTC)|| |
I didn't do it. The owner of the Dam, Luci, decided on going with docked tails, more for safety reasons than looks, really. He's had Rotts in the past that have split or broken their tails due to wagging them hard against walls and such... they naturally have whip-like tails, similar to Pit Bulls. If you read my journal, I mention that I would have opted to keep them natural, but I don't own the Dam, just the Sire. The owner of the Dam makes the decision of whether to dock or not.
The dewclaw removal is a common thing for most dogs, because they've been known to accidentally get ripped off during rough play, running through thick brush, etc. My Mom has a Husky cross that had one of her dewclaws ripped off in a similar manner. It's just a common practice.
I've already had one person jump on this journal entry screaming "Cruelty!!" to docking and cropping, and while I agree it's not necessary, (it's only cosmetic) I take a neutral stand on the subject. I personally like natural ears and tails, but I'm not going to scream "Animal abuse!" to the breeders who choose to dock or crop if the look is part of the breed's standard.
So for anyone else who may believe that it's cruel to do so, you're entitled to your opinion. But please consider the fact that a surgery is a surgery, and it's really not much different from choosing to spay or neuter a dog. There are cultures out there who believe that spaying and neutering is cruel. *shrugs* It's still going to be somewhat painful, but if you have a good vet who practices good medicine, they'll make sure that the procedures are as safe as possible.
Really, in the end it's all just political, and everyone will have a different opinion. There is no right or wrong answer.
well, in my case, I was just asking...not accusing
I wondered more about the dewclaw only because our malamute often chews on his. I dont know if it is some harmless habitual thing or what. I figured maybe the dewclaw removal you were speaking of might of had the purpose to combat that dewclaw-biting habit.
|Date:||January 23rd, 2011 10:45 pm (UTC)|| |
Re: well, in my case, I was just asking...not accusing
Sorry, I was a bit on the defensive because people have been bugging me about it, and it's not like it was my decision. O___o
He might be chewing on it because it's an annoying hanging appendage, perhaps. The dewclaw really doesn't serve much of a purpose... dogs don't use them for anything, so removing them isn't a huge deal. Better than having them accidentally rip off when they're older. There's only one breed that I know of where the dewclaw is actually desired in the standard, and that is the Great Pyrenees. Actually, they have a double dewclaw that is purposefully bred into them. I'm not exactly sure what the reason for it is though. I knew at one point when I did some research, but I've forgotten.
|Date:||January 23rd, 2011 06:52 pm (UTC)|| |
Awww!! Puppies!! Everyone loves Puppies!
Must admit, I prefer my Rotties to be fully-tailed; thankfully here in the UK the whole snipping-bits-off-dogs-for-purely-cosmetic-reasons thing seems to be - at last - dying a death.
OK, I can kinda see that under some circumstances dew-claws can be a problem - but having spent time with a wolf whose tail had to be veterinarianly-shortened by about six inches following an injury - and seeing how even this reduced her full-speed cornering-capability... reinforced my philosophy that tails are there for a purpose!
|Date:||January 23rd, 2011 10:50 pm (UTC)|| |
I agree. The docking of tails might have been useful in the days when Rotts did more cattle herding, to keep their tails from being trampled, but nowadays it's not necessary. Rottie tails are coming back, as part of the standard even here in Canada and in the U.S. I think the full tails look wonderful. :)